In this insightful and compassionate episode of The FND Podcast, Detty is joined by Jason Kreuzman, a pediatric occupational therapist based in St. Louis, Missouri, who specialises in treating children with Functional Neurological Disorder (FND). Together, they explore what occupational therapy really is, how it differs from physiotherapy, and the powerful role it can play in helping children and teens with FND rebuild their lives — one meaningful activity at a time. Jason shares how he adapts therapy for young people, how to support kids returning to school, and why building confidence and safety is key to long-term recovery. Whether you’re a parent of a newly diagnosed child, a healthcare professional wanting to understand FND better, or someone looking for practical tools and real hope, this episode is full of heart, helpful insights, and supportive guidance. ✨ Topics covered: – What occupational therapy looks like for FND – Explaining FND to children in age-appropriate ways – Supporting school transitions and daily life – Creating personalised care plans for families – Raising awareness in the healthcare system – Free resources now available for pediatric FND care This one’s a must-listen for families, carers, educators, and therapists — and a powerful reminder that support for kids with FND does exist.
In this insightful and compassionate episode of The FND Podcast, Detty is joined by Jason Kreuzman, a pediatric occupational therapist based in St. Louis, Missouri, who specialises in treating children with Functional Neurological Disorder (FND).
Together, they explore what occupational therapy really is, how it differs from physiotherapy, and the powerful role it can play in helping children and teens with FND rebuild their lives — one meaningful activity at a time. Jason shares how he adapts therapy for young people, how to support kids returning to school, and why building confidence and safety is key to long-term recovery.
Whether you’re a parent of a newly diagnosed child, a healthcare professional wanting to understand FND better, or someone looking for practical tools and real hope, this episode is full of heart, helpful insights, and supportive guidance.
Topics covered: – What occupational therapy looks like for FND – Explaining FND to children in age-appropriate ways – Supporting school transitions and daily life – Creating personalised care plans for families – Raising awareness in the healthcare system – Free resources now available for pediatric FND care
This one’s a must-listen for families, carers, educators, and therapists — and a powerful reminder that support for kids with FND does exist.
This Episodes notes:
Follow Jason Kruzeman on instagram @fnd_ot also click here to have a good look at this amazing new FND resource www.rewireot.com
All resources mentioned in the podcast can be accessed through this new website. Also check out www.fndsociety.org
they are also a great resource into learning more about FND.
Music used in this Podcast is from Soundstripe : licensed for use
Spring Cleaning by Lunerah
Nobody by Ellisan
We know by Aaron Sprinkle
Just like me by Thruline
Light the way by Ian Kelosky
Map zoom out
Thankyou for listening to the FND PODCAST we are not sponsored by these organizations however they do tremendous work in the FND community.
FND AUSTRALIAN SUPPORT SERVICES :https://fndaus.org.au/fnd-symptoms/
A wonderful resource for people in Australia with FND: from reasearch into FND, finding medical specialists and services and just information about FND. Solely dedicated to all things FND and helping those with FND in Australia.
IF you would like to support FND Australia Services and would like to have a look at some merchandise click here
FND ACTION : https://www.fndaction.org.uk
FND Action is a patient-led charity who offer a caring and supporting hand to people living with Functional Neurological Disorder (FND) in the UK.
FND GUIDE. :https://neurosymptoms.org/en/
A website all things Functional neurological Disorder written by Professor Jon Stone who is the leading FND researcher and Consultant Neurologist in Edinburgh, ScotlandDr Mohsin Butt is an excellent doctor who explained what FND is perfectly click here to watch his explanation
FND DIMENSIONS: http://fnddimensions.org/
FND Dimensions aims to develop a network of ‘peer support groups’ across the UK either in face to face meetings or online via methods such as Skype. By bringing people together on a regular basis, this helps alleviate the isolation that many FND patients feel. It also gives opportunity for others to open up dialog and to talk to others in a similar position about the day to day challenges, issues or concerns with one another. They have an amazing FND Survival Kit click here to have a look
https://www.neurokid.co.uk/\
A website for young people and families living with NEAD and neurological symptom
Amazing website with information and links to fnd
Information on Non Epileptic Seizures or NEAD
https://www.sth.nhs.uk/clientfiles/File/Epilepsy/pil2072.pdf
The FND Podcast song of the week:
Just a really uplifting song
Here re two essential reads on FND that are highly recommended by Chrissie and now myself Click on the titles to gain access on the articles.
The Cadenza for fractured consciousness From Medium.com on the fnd portal
The Road to Functional Neurological Disorder by Gabriel Brownstein
The published research Paper on FND by Haseel Bhatt
FND is not fake or Malingering
Just a quick reminder that while we love sharing insights and stories here, this podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only. It’s not meant to be medical advice tailored to your specific needs. We always encourage you to chat with your GP or a medical professional regarding any health concerns or questions you may have.
Detty: [00:00:00] The FND podcast would like to begin by acknowledging the traditional owners of the land on which we meet today, their continuing connection to land, waters, and community. We would also like to pay our respects to the people, the cultures and elders past and present.
Jason Kreuzman: There is hope and there you can make progress and we just need to figure out how to help with rewiring how your brain, your body are communicating and working together.
And I would stress the importance of engaging with their therapist and and advocating for themself. I always tell my patients and the families that we will never know them as well as they know themselves. We know a lot about the medical side, and so we need to collaborate to kind of come up with the best plan.
That is personalized for you.
Detty: You are listening to the FND podcast where we are talking all things [00:01:00] FND. Hey there and welcome back to the FND podcast where we have open, honest, and real conversations about life with functional neurological disorder. I'm your host, Eddie, and I'm just really happy that you are here.
Hello. Well, today's episode is a really special one. Earlier this year I had an amazing conversation with Jason Crewman, a pediatric occupational therapist from St. Louis, Missouri, who specializes in treating children and young people with functional neurological disorder. He's also chair of the S-L-C-H-FND committee and founding member of FND Society and FND Pediatric.
So what can I say about Jason? He's kind incredibly knowledgeable and he brings a beautiful, informed approach to working with families, navigating some of the hardest moments of their lives. In this [00:02:00] episode, we talk all things pediatric FND, from what occupational therapy is to how it differs from physiotherapy and how it can support kids in real meaningful ways.
Jason also shares tips for parents, advice for schools, and insight on how to help young people reengage their daily life in their own way, at their own pace. So whether you are a parent, a carer, a health professional, or just someone who wants to better understand this condition, this chat is full of, you know, empathy, clarity, and hopefully giving some hope.
So grab a cuppa, settle in, and let's dive right in here. My conversation with Jason Kreuzman
For those people out there who don't know what an occupational therapist is could you describe what an occupational therapist is?
Jason Kreuzman: Of course I can.
Detty: Thank you.
Jason Kreuzman: So to understand what an occupational [00:03:00] therapist is, we need to understand what occupations are, and occupations are anything that we do throughout the day that bring meaning to our life.
So it can be activities of daily living, which are dressing, bathing, grooming, toileting, feeding or sleep. And then. Anything else that we do throughout the day, us talking here, spending time with our kids, going for a walk, watching a movie, those are all occupations, working school, whatnot. So really the role of occupational therapists are finding personalized ways for people to reengage in those meaningful occupations.
Detty: Yeah. So in regards to occupational therapy, what's the difference in like physiotherapy too? Like how does the role of the OT differ from physiotherapy in FND?
Jason Kreuzman: Yeah, I think that there's, I think there's actually some crossovers. Which I think in with all providers with FND, there is some crossovers and there should be, physical therapists are looking a lot at like motory training ensuring functional [00:04:00] balance, being able to like reintegrate in those like automatic movements and occupational therapy is focusing on how they're reengaging in those functional tasks. Utilizing different sensory strategies to support that building in neuro regulation tasks.
And working on things called interception. So those kind of, that sense of knowing how your body is responding to situations. So like changes in your heart rate and sweaty palms or headaches or those sort of things that often are warning signs. We kind of build in these these opportunities for self-awareness so we can start to engage in more like self-management.
All to help with that overall functional independence. So really there's a collaboration between all the providers.
Detty: That makes sense. Actually, you know, I just recently interviewed Haseel and yeah, I think you and Hasil would be like the dream team to be honest.
Jason Kreuzman: Oh man. Oh, if only we lived in the same country.
I
Detty: know, right? I mean, it's actually [00:05:00] really cool that the FND community is worldwide too. The question is, why the interest with FND? Can you delve into it more?
Jason Kreuzman: Yeah. I, the interest with FNDI think it's I early on was exposed by a few other physical therapists to the patient population and was really amazed to see how we can make effects as therapists on individual symptoms and their functioning and those sort of things.
I've always had a heart for individuals that have maybe been casted out or the system just doesn't necessarily work for them. Not at any fault of their own. And I saw that a lot in FND and was very curious why that was the case and dug more into it. And, I mean, just fascinating how complex and individualized FND is for everybody.
So just, I've kind of been interested from the [00:06:00] beginning of my career.
Detty: I'm thinking when it comes to FND awareness, like for you, why? Why is it so important for you? I just wanna know.
Jason Kreuzman: I mean, it should not be on the person diagnosed with a disorder to progress their care. And I think, yeah, I think if we.
Are not aware of something that is so prevalent. I don't know how we can make progress in changing how we treat it within our medical systems. And so letting people know how common FND is really is the way that you initiate change. I've had these conversations with my managers at work, and we won't get referrals for our outpatient clinics for patients with FND.
And they're like, well, if we're not getting referrals, there clearly isn't a need. But we're also not advertising that. We see individuals with FNDA lot of times. And so if you don't tell people that you can do these things or you don't tell people or show that there's this need there's [00:07:00] not gonna be like a change.
So I think having awareness around the fact that these individuals diagnosed with FND are here this is not a new phenomenon and it's something that we need to be progressing on. I think that awareness is where it starts.
Detty: Right. So, what led you into pediatrics?
Jason Kreuzman: Honestly I'm a goofball, so I like to it's one of the places that I can go and provide therapy, talking like Mickey Mouse and not be judged.
So
Detty: Nice.
Jason Kreuzman: Yeah. No I've always been drawn to kids and it fascinated with their all when they're learning something for the first time and then just. Really amazing the life transition, how kids develop and the complexities of the social environments and all those things. So I've always been pediatrics for me,
Detty: FND for adults is pretty hard.
But it must be exceptionally harder for kids who don't understand, how do you help them as an [00:08:00] OT transition, life,
Jason Kreuzman: stress stressors and the way that you explain very different. And also with having the. Young individual and their family, you have to kind of tailor the way that we educate them to each person.
So, hardware, software, analogy, I'm not a huge fan of that because we're not computers. So that can be really hard to understand. And so I find that and having conversations with family and the kids I kind of get to know them a little bit and then I'm able to, to more personalize how I explain things.
And I think some of the biggest barriers is that you're trying to get everyone on the same page of understanding. And there's generally one or two people that are really skeptical. And I think that's not just because it being FNDI think it a lot of that kind of comes on the healthcare professionals and how we initially explain it and educate and talk about it and collaborate.
And so a lot of it is just kind of diving in with them and learning about them and, just helping them reengage in what they find meaningful in their life,
Detty: I [00:09:00] guess, for young kids. Right. You know, you did say you didn't like talking about us being computers, so
Both: Yeah.
Detty: And I don't like that either.
But how do you explain it to a really young kid? If, for example, my son, he's like seven years old and he got recently diagnosed with FND. How would you explain it to him?
Jason Kreuzman: Yeah it's really tough. I think. One, I would get to know him a little bit more and kind of figure out the things that he's into.
And then if he's into things like Pokemon or Minecraft, I find a way to like to use analogies for that. But really I would, I kind of highlight the fact that, the things that I'm observing them do. So if they're moving or we're talking or we're playing with a toy, I'll let 'em know that, hey, when you're moving your home to play with that toy, your brain and your body are communi or like talking to each other the whole time.
And sometimes the way that we talk can get really mixed up and can get really confusing. And so it makes it hard for our body to move or it makes it hard for our brain to talk to our body. And [00:10:00] so. What we're gonna do is we're gonna find ways to help you not have to worry about having that difficulty with between your brain and your body, but also just be able to get back to playing.
I find that the younger kids. Is, the more that I like overexplain, the more confusing it gets, the more complicated it gets. I think for the younger ages it's more really showing and demonstrating because they can pick up on, oh, that was weird. I just tried this thing and that made a change. And then as they get older and more into like the teenage years, then we can start getting into more like in depth conversations about like, the neuroscience and whatever it is that they're like interested in to understand.
So it really depends on their developmental age.
Detty: Yeah. So you're really tailoring to their needs uniquely, I mean, just as unique as their own FND.
Jason Kreuzman: Yeah. You need to, 'cause I think if you don't give people the opportunity to understand in a way that makes sense for them, you're already kind of setting them off on the wrong, like the wrong foot.[00:11:00]
Detty: How do you help them transition back into school?
Jason Kreuzman: Yeah. I think a lot of it is simulating and practicing it. Before they get there. So, it's kind of like telling someone to go swim that we've never taught them how to do that. Yeah. And so our nervous systems and our sensory systems are like, need extra support and we have to figure out what are their, like, what are they sensitive to?
If they are like, oh, I've seen a lot of kids that. Have noise sensitivity or like, bright lights bother them. And so utilizing different supports for that can be helpful.
And then really just kind of working through that. So, if the goal is to be able to get to school and they have to be able to sit in a chair for an hour and then do a passing period and then repeat that six times how are we building in opportunities for pacing?
How are we building in opportunities for breaks so you don't get to the end of the day? And then you pay for it for the next couple of days.
Both: Yeah.
Jason Kreuzman: It's finding ways to listen to our body to advocate for ourself, and [00:12:00] then really educating the school to make sure that they have the supports that they need.
Yeah. But a lot of it is through gradual engagement and exposure.
Detty: A doctor once told me, I don't know how else to treat you. I really don't, I dunno how else to treat you, daddy. You are the second patient that I've ever had with FND. You know, it seems as though people have to, you know, they have to seek out their own therapy and they don't know about occupational therapy and what it, you know, plays in part with FND.
So, FND. And occupational therapy is integral.
Jason Kreuzman: Yeah. I think as occupational therapists, we don't do a wonderful job of advocating for ourselves because we're so focused on trying to help people in the moment that we don't think long term of like, we need to be, like showing what, like why we should be at the table.
But our roots are in psychological, psychologically based treatment,
Which is what best practice is recommended in all the research. And I think it, we see it like this [00:13:00] diagnosis like your doctor said. I don't know what to do with you. I think we get afraid of a different diagnosis and we don't think about the roots of where we started and that we have these abilities that can help.
And I think even just doing things like implementing routines and finding ways to be able to listen to our bodies. Signals and changes and how do we adapt to that to sustain our engagement in occupations? I think that is the root of what occupational therapy does, and I think if we start there and then if that person doesn't have all the skills and the knowledge to help you out, then we find someone who's a specialist.
We just need to get more of those specialists.
Detty: So I do see that you have like a package. If that's available now due to FND world awareness can you tell me more about that?
Jason Kreuzman: Yeah. So, through the FND Society a group of pediatric providers have been working to build resources, do research, [00:14:00] all these different things, and we've been trying to find creative ways to get the resources out to people.
And so our thought was, well, why don't we put it in a packet and we can disperse it out and use social media and send it to different hospital systems and other groups. And the things that are all included in it is a a simple one pager is FND, but the goal of it being utilized in our emergency departments to where maybe the understanding isn't great but we at least can get really good information and resources at the beginning.
The self-management plan that's directed primarily for functional seizures,
Detty: right? Yes. It
Jason Kreuzman: gives a sense of like, how do you respond, not just the individual having functional seizures but caregivers, teachers, anyone around and allows to have a personalized plan.
Detty: Oh, that's really good for when they're going back to school because.
Yeah. Yeah. At least you know, the teachers and their friends would know what to do and not to panic.
Jason Kreuzman: It definitely helps. Yeah, so we have that, we have some nervous system regulation [00:15:00] tips. Things that don't really require a lot of items. I think often for those that are not aware of like FND regarding physical therapists or occupational therapists.
We're always referring, oh, you should go get this thing and you should go get this thing and here's this item that you can use. And it's like you don't really need a lot of things to be able to help with regulating your nervous system. It's just finding what works for you. Yeah. So I wanted to give give that, and then the last part of the packet is.
Help with writing a school letter. One of the things that we notice is that a lot of schools are very uncomfortable. Yes. With helping with managing and helping kids reintegrate back into their schools or adults or whomever it is. And so having some specifics on how do we write in a way that both gives voice to the person with FND but also educates the school and empowers them to be able to.
Find ways to work within those recommendations facility. So trying to kind of hit from the emergency [00:16:00]department all the way through care back into occupational engagement.
Detty: Yeah, so that would be the the pathway as well.
Jason Kreuzman: Yes. Yeah. I think it's, I think it's helpful for parents and families to know that it doesn't just end at here's your diagnosis, that there is more steps for care.
But I also think it's important for medical professionals to know that also, I think,
Detty: yes,
Jason Kreuzman: there's a gross misunderstanding of what. Care should look like. For those with FNDI,
Detty: I completely agree. Look when I first got diagnosed with FNDI was wondering how to be a parent, be do duet safely, and I was starting to have the functional seizures as well.
Like everything was encroaching all at once. There was no OT assessment at the hospital to make sure that I was safe. Is that still prevalent as well, do you think?
Jason Kreuzman: Very much so. Yeah. I,
Detty: yeah.
Jason Kreuzman: And I think a lot of it goes back to the stigma around it. I mean, the history with FND is really [00:17:00] long.
And goes from hysteria to conversion and now FNDI mean, other things in between. And I think we as people are we shy away from things that don't make sense to us, and FND kind of goes against. What a lot of us learn and like medical school. Yeah. And is very unique and I think that's part of the reason why we keep getting pushback on changes in how we care for those with FND and changes in the way that we help individuals when they get admitted to the hospital.
But yeah I still see that a lot. I think the focus is unfortunately on not. Not over medicalizing, but I think we focus so much on not appropriately medicalizing, that we're trying to get people out of the hospital before we're really making plans to help them.
Detty: Yeah. And I guess that, so
Jason Kreuzman: it's a it's a balance.
Detty: Yeah. And I guess that's really important for awareness is to actually start, you know, with the healthcare professionals and educating them early on. Early on as well as, you know, the ones that you know, [00:18:00] are already in the profession, but who have no idea. Because sometimes I feel that there isn't much confidence in treating people with FND.
And so sometimes, you know, that's where the difference lies in regards to the treatment. As well. Does that make sense to you? Like what, how Very much so.
Jason Kreuzman: Very much so. Yeah. I actually just I published a, an a, some research that I did with occupational therapists, physical therapists and speech therapists to, to understand their confidence in treating individuals with FND Yeah. And primarily pediatrics. And I mean, it was like 50 50, so it was like, it was a chance if they felt confident or not. Yeah. Education needs to be early on. I a hundred percent agree with you.
Detty: Are you holding any workshops or any courses for the near future for healthcare professionals?
Jason Kreuzman: That is one of the goals. I don't have anything necessarily in the books right now, but, we have through the FND society have like a 1 0 1 on [00:19:00] rehab
Coming out sometime soon. Which I think is really helpful. And honestly I think even if you have FND it's helpful for you to be able to attend those.
Like, if you don't have providers that know the appropriate ways to care for you by all means go attend the classes and help figure that out also. But I also have been working on a website, so I know that there's I hate just giving people a website and saying, good luck.
Detty: No. I think yours would be absolutely brilliant and different to that.
Oh, I hope so. You know,
Jason Kreuzman: I think and relatable, the goal is to kind of con, consolidate a lot of the different resources. Yes. And instead of being like, Hey, here's five or six different places you can go, Hey, here's one. And then if. If I wanna send you out to another one, like I'm not advocating or just advertising myself.
It's more just to give people access to where all the other resources are. So. Currently working on putting that together. So that'll be exciting
Detty: actually. That'll be brilliant. Because when you first get [00:20:00] diagnosed, I suppose, and you know for many out there, you start to doctor Google yourself.
You know the first things first, and there is so much information about FND, but then you come across conversion and then you come across like everything else. Yeah. It gets really
Jason Kreuzman: confusing.
Detty: It is. Well, I'm really excited for that website too. You probably heard this question a million times already, but for those here who have kids recently diagnosed with FND, especially the parents, what would you tell them?
Jason Kreuzman: It's a great question. I think often when I talk to the parents I see in their face that they have no idea what their role is and how to help their child.
Detty: Yeah. Best support them. Yes.
Jason Kreuzman: Yeah, and I think I mean, I just had a kiddo this past week who had seizure activity since COVID but was never diagnosed with functional seizures and was finally diagnosed with functional se seizures and was able to give real life education to the caregiver and better understanding kinda like how [00:21:00] they've been caring and then like validate them that like.
The way that you've been responding is extremely appropriate. And I would be doing the exact same thing if I didn't know what was actually going on. And honestly, I try to sit with them. And if we have these functional seizures. I'm gonna sit there and I'm gonna model the way that we should respond. And I'm gonna try to talk them through that when it's appropriate and really empower them to know how to firsthand help.
Because I think if we don't educate both the person with FND and the people that are helping them there's a big gap. Like we're, it's like giving the website and saying good luck, but then not helping with returning to function. So I think my first thing is to help give them. A job. And often it's gonna be utilizing those nervous system, calming tasks to model them for their child.
I do that during my therapy sessions because if I tell someone to do like a grounding task or types of breathing and I don't do it with them, the kids are gonna look at me like I'm weird and be like, no, [00:22:00] I'm good. And so. Empowering the parents to be able to try those and do those and model it.
It's gonna be helpful for both.
Detty: Yeah. And in regards to the kids who are being diagnosed with FND newly diagnosed what advice would you give them?
Jason Kreuzman: There is hope and there you can make progress and we just need to figure out how to help with rewiring how your brain and your body are communicating and working together.
And I would stress the importance of engaging with their therapist and and advocating for themself. I always tell my, my, my patients and their families that we will never know them as well as they know themselves. We know a lot about the medical side. And so we need to collaborate to kind of come up with the best plan that is personalized for you.
Detty: Well, thank you so very much. Thank you so very much for joining us and for having a great conversation on FND and occupational [00:23:00] therapy. This is actually really enlightening just to talk to you. So thank you so very much
Jason Kreuzman: and it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me on and waking up early to talk to me.
Detty: No worries. I would gladly do it all over again, but maybe with two coffees instead of just one (laugh).
And that my friends was Jason Kreuzman, and that also brings us to the end of this truly special conversation. I just wanna say a huge thank you to Jason for sharing not only his knowledge, but his heart and reminding us that. There is hope, especially for our kids and young people living with FND, whether it's returning to school, understanding symptoms, or just learning how to be kind to your nervous system.
Jason's insight just shows us that occupational therapy isn't just about doing tasks, it's actually about reclaiming life in meaningful personal ways. So that's something that we all [00:24:00] truly deserve. If this episode has helped you moved you or gave you something to think about, please share it with someone who might need it to.
And if you're a parent or a carer or someone newly navigating FND, you are truly not alone. We're all walking this path together. One gentle step at a time, so you'll find all the links. For Jason mentioned in the notes I actually wanna share something with you. I I showed the my OT to his new website, which is www rewired ot.com and he was simply blown away.
And he is one who is trying to learn as much as possible about FND is actually pretty cool. So Jason, that's ah. That website is truly mind blowing. If you haven't checked it out, I suggest that perhaps maybe you might want to. All right, well, stay safe, [00:25:00] love hard, and peace. And as always, I'll see you on the flip side.
Thank you for tuning into another episode of the FND podcast. We hope you like this episode, and if you'd like to learn more or need support regarding functional neurological disorder, be sure to check out the resources offered by FND action at. www.fndaction.org.uk and FND, Australian Support Services FND oz.org.au or neuro symptoms.org.au.
And many other FND organizations out there with some having their own apps, they are doing fantastic work to raise awareness and provide much needed assistance to those impacted by FND. Now don't forget to subscribe to our podcast so that you never miss an episode. And if you enjoyed the show, we'd love to hear from you.
So leave a review. [00:26:00] So stay connected with us on social media and join the conversation. We'd like to hear your feedback and any topics you'd like us to cover in the future episodes. Until next time. Take care and be kind to yourself. This is de signing up from the FND podcast. Stay safe, love hard, and peace, and we'll see you on the flip side.
Bye for now.